Old 2012 Championship topic that got off subject

[Dasnowman]

Hi Everyone,

What are your thoughts of what Phil has proposed.

Speedcafe - Sports Sedans 2012

I think this could be the way forward for this great series!!

Thanks

Dasnowman

[Nadz44]

Its all positive i reckon... Would be a good idea, maybe like they said in the interview, maybe get a discount at the end of the year if you turn up to all rounds and some other incentives...

[toranaracer]

If only there was a pro-rata system for the past two years, we would be looking at $0 entry fee for 2012 ;)

The only year we decide to have a rest and there may be financial incentives :(

Hopefully some sponsorship can be found so we can look into committing again for all rounds in 2012 B)

toranaracer.

[MrBoost]

I wish i had the money to commit for a full year, one day i will but the house and wedding etc have to be paid first!

It would be great if 14 people did commit next year. So are the extra's meant to be state guys who want to front up
to the national round as well as there normal state series? As i believe the state and nats wont be joint next year.

It will probably work ok in nsw as we ALWAYS support the nationals well, but what about other states? Will you queenslander
state and vic state guys turn up to your national rounds?
We are very lucky in nsw at the moment to have such a strong bunch of front running cars in the state championship. Any of
our top 6 are capable of taking a 3rd place podium at the nats as it was this year.
We need some more good state cars in other states to support the nats when they come to town.

So how would the contract work? is it just to secure entry fees or you would be in trouble for not turning up even if you paid your
entry and just didnt front?
What would happen when soemone demolishes there car in round one?

[Toymax]

There's a few tings in that article and with the concept that worry me.

First off Tony, be a bit careful when bagging State guys out in a general comment. NSW provided excellent support to the joint round concept in 2011 and have committed to it again in 2012. Hurling blame at the State level guys for failings in the National series is neither accurate nor a good way of encouraging State support in the future. State level racers are here to race at State level first and foremost, not be the fallback position for a National series that needs help.

I worry about 2 other things in the article, although I agree with Phil that he has to try and do something to improve the competitor involvement. First, I don't like the idea of running the whole thing as a business franchise. It ruined V8 Stupidcars and I can't see it doing much good for Sports Sedans. Second (and I've posted this idea up in other threads on this forum), I disagree with Sports Sedans turning into a "kit car" category. Sports Sedans as a concept are individual by design and construction and that is a formula that should not be compromised.

The car that won the 2011 Kerrick Sports Sedan series? Completely individual. The car that won the NSW State Championship? Not another one like it. And that's the way Sports Sedans are meant to be.

Are we really, honestly losing drivers to other categories who just want to turn up and drive the same car as everyone else? Who did this reseach, and where are the findings documented? I'd love to have a read.

[viper358]

I don't see how you can say that V8 supercars is a failure, it is a victim of its own success. The racing is close but lacks the variety of overtaking opportunities that a typical SS field has. Because all the cars in a SS field have a variety of strengths and weaknesses due to power down, turn in , braking, low speed, high speed aero etc. The concept of a franchise or a commited core group of drivers and owners that SIGN on to a contract to contest the ENTIRE championship is imperative to the successful growth of the Class and the Kerrick series. Variety is the spice of life but the concept of a field of 25 totally individual cars is hard to achieve. Repeatability can be obtained by similar cars Transam style and possibly the Riverside and Phast Phil whilst still maintaining individuality. We need bigger fields, it would be great to have a MCM sized field at all Kerrick rounds, and I believe that is what Phil is devoting his energies to. Please discuss!!

[FalconEL]

This is an interesting discussion.

Ultimately, the issues we have as a non-professional category stem from "not enough money/not enough time". I agree with the concept of contracting a core group of teams and offering incentives to those teams for their committment. I also believe we need the State competitors support at National Rounds.

Tony R. is right in that for the QLD Round, there was little in the way of State Level support this year. Part of the reason for this is that most of the good State guys have progressed to become National competitors, ie. Bradford, Smith, McLoughlin etc. now Coxy has brought a National Level car, and I guess we run the Falcon moreso at National events now rather than State. I believe the lack of numbers was more due to circumstances rather than a lack of cars in the State. At the recent Phillip Island Round, we didn't get a great deal of cars due to the scheduling of he calendar dictating that the Vic. State guys had three PI race meetings in 5 weeks, (two race meetings is tough in that time frame, let alone three!!)

What going to National Rounds has done for me is to make me "lift my game" and strive to achieve. I've been able to race against different competitors at different tracks, it's been great. Whilst our car isn't the fastest, it's gotten quicker and more reliable and I'm having a great time racing it. Part of the issue I see is that I found that I got pretty stale racing at State Level all the time. I supported the QLD State Championship from 1996 through to about 2004 and raced against the same competitors all the time at the same tracks. I found that when the Nationals came to town during those years, I'd lift myself about 2 seconds per lap (whether that was a grippier track or more competitive racing, I couldn't be sure). For me, in terms of the overall cost of our investment, it doesn't cost that much more to compete at a National Round versus a State Round, so if I had the choice I would prefer to run at a National Round. Of course I then feel guilty for not supporting the State Meetings, but can't be in two places at once unfortunately.

I agree with Toymax for the most part, but also agree that as a category we need to make it easier for guys to get into our category. We need to retain the individuality of the cars, but somehow "speed-up" the build times for vehicles, or do something to entice guys with cars in sheds to bring them back out again. So, back we go to "money/time" again...

It's a catch-22, the State Associations naturally have a vested interest in making sure their State events are well supported and I totally agree with that. I spent many years fighting the same fight in trying to get guys to race at State Level up here in QLD. It comes down to what your priorities are and what you can afford. What I will say is that many of us have quite expensive investments for them to be relegated to State Championship or lesser level race meetings only.

[Phast Phil]

I wrote a really long and meaningful reply and then my modem cut out and it was all lost so you are getting a shorter version now.

The state need to protect their patch of turf and the Nationals need to be self supported and not have to rely on the states for sharing entrants.

Having said that some state guys really enjoy running with the Nats when we come to their town so we are obviously filling a need there also.

For the Nats to be self reliant we need to attract the best and fastest SS to supply the best and fastest National series. This way any crossover is voluntary.

The Nats is more about the series then the purist SS belief that one should only make a one off car in the back shed. Many of our cars are exactly that however there is room for professionally made cars if the price is right.

Trans-am is the growth sector of the SS Nat series. Yes there is new SS that have been or are being built but we need a more instant growth, we cannot wait 5 years for a car build.

So there will be a TA class in the series this year with awards and recognition. There will be an outright series as always and that will probably be it as the heavy metal thing was not supported by those that wanted it and the under 3500cc only had 2 real supporters in the 2 years it has run so I guess you are voting that the under 3500cc guys prefer state competition.

The Nats introduced a RPM limit and a tyre limit and rolling starts and will continue to introduce things that are good for the series and the entrants reliability. Imagine the Nats with no RPM limit. John G and Basil R would probably have replaced several grenaded engines by now....for what?

We need a good sized core group to support the Nats and stand on our own 2 feet, so that is what we will pursue.

[2JZSS]

Phast Phil,

What sort of dollars are we looking at to become one of the 14?

Pm me if you want.

I think its a pretty good idea because generally speaking if you have put your money down you will more than likely turn up than if you havent put any money down.

[FAMOUS]

Do you understand the only reason it works in V8s is because of the economics that it generates .

I see a class that at least half the field does it as a hobby on the skins of there asses .

If you are going to do this who will buy your franchise off you when you finnish .

What is your market potential ? Have most of the teams the ability to commit to every round no matter what happens in there life or pay a fine ?

Wouldn't it be better to try a get into the bigger meetings and establish a marketable product again first ?