Trucks, 3D rules, Self determination

[Ricey88]

Phil im i right in thinking bernie gillon was the last person to enter a trans am, all the rest are 3d sports sedans?

[Nadz44]

Des Walls Vette, Dean Camms Vette and Shane Bradfords Camaro are all trans-ams im sure....

[Phast Phil]

I am not privvy to what log book all the Australian based transam style cars are running under, but for this exercise lets assume they are logged by CAMS as group 3D sports sedans.

From what I can gather, and the intention when Peter Lawrence (the ex CAMS tech rules man) helped us rewrite the 2007 + sports sedan rules was to have a set of sports sedan rules that added some more freedom (such as full composite bodies and no need for opening doors) for all sports sedans plus a few safety improvements, such as side impact protection and one or 2 other things. Once this rewrite was complete then it was envisaged that a transam style car would in fact qualify for sports sedan competition.

As a side issue, if a transam car was compliant with the SCCA transam rules or the NZ tranzam rules (supposed to be one and the same back at that time) then under the sporting regulations for the Kerrick series it would enjoy an extra 200 RPM as compensation for the extra minimum weight.

Back to the tech regs. The regs state that a homologated (USA homologation) transam body may be used on a sports sedan. This means that one may sports sedanize a transam car and that is what I have done. For example I use a fuel injected engine and a cambered diff housing and 6 speed transmission and my engine has been set back about one extra inch. As a result I am classed as a sports sedan and I run under the SS RPM limit. Sadly I still carry a lot of extra weight due to the original heavy duty car construction.

In summary I have never been approached by a scrutineer or the Kerrick series chief tech officer to inform or advise that my nor any other transam style car is non compliant with the rules. I have assumed therefore that no changes to the rules were necessary. As always, once somethig is inspected in minute detail we may find something that is ambiguous or simply silent on a limitation or datum fact and therefore open to comflicting interpretation. When that happens we should work together on an amendment so that the original intention of the rule is preserved.

I think we have exhausted this discussion on this forum and nothing more positive can be achieved on this forum but feel free to discuss amoung yourselves in order to build a constructive solution should you think a rule point needs addressing.

[Ricey88]

Back to the tech regs. The regs state that a homologated (USA homologation) transam body may be used on a sports sedan.

Thanks Phil
That makes me look pretty fu(king stupid
All my stupidity to get somthing thats already in the 3d tec regs

I'll take some, chill pills and have a bucket of harden up princess

[Ricey88]

Nadz
I don’t think non cams log booked cars can be run at CAMS State championships so
Any Vetts, Stangs & Camaros in state rounds would be Sports sedans.
Members of the National sports sedan association are privy the entrant’s logbook numbers via
The entry list that is circulated before most races. The only non CAMS logbook number I remember ever seeing was BG’s.

WTF

Quote From the rules
“Available DTM/TransAm-style bodywork may be used when recommended by the NSSC and CAMS for approval”

From that how do you get?

“All homologated trans am bodies (inc aero as per trans am) are approved in group 3D tech regs.”
And
“The regs state that a homologated (USA homologation) TransAm body may be used on a sports sedan.

Most readers will probably just accept what you say is straight from the rulebook.

My motivation comes from wanting to have all the sports sedan owners united in one set of rules
Where everyone can easily know what modifications they are allowed to make, and to know what
There competitors are able to have/do.
That will also build confidence identifying legal cars for anyone thinking about buying a TransAm or sports sedan.

Every competitor that has been or is in the future sent home or refused entry Because of a fault found in eligibility of there car,
Will to some degree feel like a whipping block “why mine, why not all the others “some may never come back.

The SCCA TransAm GT1 Bodies look to be wider than 100mm per side and it has been confirmed in this thread that the wings are 200mm wider
Than what’s stated in the 3d rules, also the windscreen bar work doesn’t look like it conforms to Schedule J.
I think everyone Knows the intention of the rules was to make Trans am legal so what’s the problem in fixing the rules so that they are.

This forum could have been a great place for a good wording of the changes to be formulated as there will be “catch 22’s” like
If the GT1 body is legal then it’s a legal 3d, that would mean it could have a 100mm front splitter, easy except
Once it’s got the 100mm splitter it’s not a legal GT1 so cannot be added as a sports sedan. With so many
People on this forum between them, a well phrased paragraph would overcome the catch 22,

Other simple things, like the rules say front side windows are optional .My be it could also say the rear side windows are 5%
Free ( most of the cars are missing some %) so why not accept it and add it in. forward and rearward facing scoops on the side windows,
Yes or no?
Another that I have been pushing for years is that “aluminium, or aluminium alloy, of gauge not thinner than 1.25mm”
Be changed to read “1.20mm”

Here is a Trans am that was sold in the USA not long ago.
Looking at the windscreen bar work I hope no one in Australia bought it based on someone telling them Trans am ARE LEGAL.

[FalconEL]

Wow....

For the benefit of the other forum members, if I'm reading this correctly it seems that your issue is not with racing against TransAms or with TransAm's being Sports Sedans, your issue is to get clarification as to whether you can run TransAm body work on your Sports Sedan?

In relation to the photo above which is of a TransAm, not a Sports Sedan, as I stated previously, for the Kerrick Series:

S4 AUTOMOBILE ELIGIBILITY
Only automobiles that comply with the provisions of one (1) of the following are eligible to compete in the
Series:
(a) Space frame chassis and floorpan Sports Sedans complying with the Group 3D Sports Sedan Regulations as per the 2010 CAMS Manual of Motorsport (Class SS).
(b) Trans-am automobiles complying with A.S.S.C. regulations for North American Trans-am competition (Class TA)
(c) TraNZam automobiles complying with TRG of New Zealand regulations (ClassTNZ).

If the above vehicle (in your attached photo) complies with either b) or c), it is eligible for Kerrick Series competition. The vehicles need to be log booked as something and I assume you are quite correct that the TransAm's currently running in Australia are log booked as 3D Sports Sedans. They fit the criteria and have to comply with a set of rules (the TA and TNZ Rules) that are well defined and are well and truly in the spirit of the Sports Sedan Rules detailed in the CAMS Manual.

PHIL, CAN YOU PLEASE PROCURE A COPY OF THE FOLLOWING AND PLACE ON THE WEBSITE!!!
1) The S.C.C.A (pretty sure it's not supposed to be A.S.S.C.) regulations for North American Trans-am competition (Class TA)
2) The TRG of New Zealand regulations (ClassTNZ)

Ian, can you please move a motion detailing the areas in which you believe the 3D Sports Sedan Rules require clarification at your next ASSA VIC meeting to submit to the NSSC for their consideration?

[Ricey88]

SCCA TA is easy
http://www.sccaproracing.com/files/misc/2011%20PRR%20V06.pdf

I have never found the NZ Rules

I dont think i will be able to get such a motion through. Rules change or repair is an unpopulare topic to talk about.
And if this thread is anything to go by its going to be a long time before i can convince anyone that its for the better!.

By rasing the ideas here it starts people thinking about it
and then in the future IF good and benificial, the changes will happen.

the picture is of a scca trans am TA
and the only point i am making with the pic is for anyone that believes that buying
this car would allow them to race at state seriers, may turn out to be very wrong.
It would then be a shock to find out it was only eligable to race at the national series.

None of it has to do with adding to my car ( well shortly i will be looking at rear wings )

[FalconEL]

I dont think i will be able to get such a motion through. Rules change or repair is an unpopulare topic to talk about.
And if this thread is anything to go by its going to be a long time before i can convince anyone that its for the better!.

Ricey, please, you're better than that surely!!!

I guess I'm disappointed that rather than be proactive and draft a detailed motion outlining each of your concerns, you'd prefer to jump on a forum, air your grievances to the world, and hope someone else does it for you???

One point I agree with you on is that there are always rules that can be tidied up!! I want clarification on a few points myself!! There is a process available to you and I to do this. It starts with your State Association.

Rule clarification
By rasing the ideas here it starts people thinking about it
and then in the future IF good and benificial, the changes will happen.

See above.

the picture is of a scca trans am TA
and the only point i am making with the pic is for anyone that believes that buying
this car would allow them to race at state seriers, may turn out to be very wrong.
It would then be a shock to find out it was only eligable to race at the national series.

As well as National Series events, the car in the photo is welcome to race in QLD Sports Sedan Championship events, and based on other posts in this thread, probably NSW Sports Sedan Championship events also, provided it complies with the Class TA or Class TNZ rules.

[Ricey88]

Chris
1) Didn’t say I wouldn’t try
2) Happy to write a draft and put it up to the vics

3) If it can get a logbook to run in the other states Vic is no different there is no state issues here!!!!

[Htc Motorsport]

A little off topic but the funny thing to this argument here is we are wondering whether the Tranzam car meets the requirements for it to be given a 3D logbook, but the Oz utes didnt have a problem getting one. I would have thought the Tranzam car was closer to a Sports Sedan than a ute. Somethings wrong somewhere.