All those great cars and none racing.

[Toyzda]

2L turbo is an open car. The irvine rx-7 proves that 2L turbo is competitive in open. When Neil McFadden drove that car he was pushing the Ricciadello Alfa for a win! Also anyone who has seen Nick Smiths 2L turbo car in NSW would agree.

But, and its a big but, why not allow the IPRA 2L restrictor engine rules into SS? They would have a multivalve weight penalty and a 36mm restrictor. Drop the NA status and it could be an addition to the new u3500 class?

[2002 turbo]

Totally agree with spec series not being the answer, completely goes against the nature of the class.

Just a question how was the 3.5 litre capacity limit for S2 decided on? Did the organisers look at the number of existing cars running with that engine capacity? Or other potential cars that could slide in under the rule?

[Htc Motorsport]

I've always wondered how the drag racing weight breaks would work in Sports Sedans. They use lb/s per cube formulas, for example in Super stock they have 5 N/A classes ranging from A/Gas at 7.5 lb/s per cube through to F/Gas at about 10.5 lb/s per cube. ( i think from memory). Just food for thought really, i think the current rules are great but seeing we are introducing new classes something along this line might be worth discussion.

[Ricey88]

3529 x 1.7 is open
Johnson & Gilliland are very quick ,
It would be good to see Nick and other U3500 allowed the
opportunity to fight for a National championship.

Banning turbos is not a good thing because it goes against the SS
3d rules, Restrictors or anything else not in the sports sedan rules
Would be as bad or worse.

[Htc Motorsport]

No you would keep all the turbo classes and multiply them by the 1.7 factor as normal but it would just mean that if you wanted to run a 454 chev engine you could, you would just have to carry the weight.
IE; 454 c.i @ 7.5 lb/s per cube = 3405 lb/s so lets say you could make 800hp N/A. (example only)
IE; 260 c.i @ 10.5lb/s per cube =2730 lb/s so if you could make say 500 h.p N/A ( example only)
I think in track time they would be close. Obviously the weights im using as an example are drag car weights and that would be regarded as heavy for a circuit car but im sure theres someone out there who can create the correct formula.
You can do the same through the weight breaks by racing in the weight break that suited your engine. So you could have a little 1.6 litre turbo in the same class as the 4.0 litre N/A same weight same H.P just different engine combos.

Makes for great discussion.

[msadyno]

The first "con" i can think of Htc is if you went with that formula and made the field withing a few seconds of each other is dramatically reduced lap times. Takes away the appeal of the animal style race cars the guys up the front have now.

The class has more numbers, entries and attention compared to say 2 or 3 years ago. Given the current rate of growth in the current financial climate it's been a pretty impressive few years. I'd say in a few more years it's going to be hard for a lot of guys to qualify due to increasing numbers.

[Toyzda]

3529 x 1.7 is open
Johnson & Gilliland are very quick ,
It would be good to see Nick and other U3500 allowed the
opportunity to fight for a National championship.

Banning turbos is not a good thing because it goes against the SS
3d rules, Restrictors or anything else not in the sports sedan rules
Would be as bad or worse.

I didn't mean 2L turbo is open in a mathematical sense, but in a car speed sense. a multivalve 2l turbo car is only 3400cc mathematically, but with the 150kg weight advantage over 6LNA it can be a competitve combination. Hence 2L turbo is an outright contending car.

Your idea of letting turbo cars into the u3500 class is a great idea, but they need to be resitricted. The industry wide (rally cars, F3, IPRA) air inlet restrictor style of "horspower capping" is the way to go.

It is hard to judge parity issues untill all the fastest u3500NA cars are racing each other. The current mazda and folden battle is great to watch, but without any disrespect, i believe the two 20BPP Centerline Mazdas are faster than these two. They would be the goal posts to judge against. Hopefully they run the Sandown rd5 so we can all see the potential of the u3500 class...

[Toyzda]

The first "con" i can think of Htc is if you went with that formula and made the field withing a few seconds of each other is dramatically reduced lap times. Takes away the appeal of the animal style race cars the guys up the front have now.

The class has more numbers, entries and attention compared to say 2 or 3 years ago. Given the current rate of growth in the current financial climate it's been a pretty impressive few years. I'd say in a few more years it's going to be hard for a lot of guys to qualify due to increasing numbers.

I concurr. No need to change things up to much, just needs fine tuning. SS as a class is from the ice age of racing. The (relatively) modern "spec" or "single" make classes pop up, thrive and then disband as cost esculate and the rats flee the sinking ship... remember those 60k HQ's back in the 90's..... killed the class. SS is a uniqe category with freedoms that allow engineering challenges to make the best of the rule book. The u3500NA class just allows a more modern structure on top of a very secure 6L platform.

[Toyzda]

Totally agree with spec series not being the answer, completely goes against the nature of the class.

Just a question how was the 3.5 litre capacity limit for S2 decided on? Did the organisers look at the number of existing cars running with that engine capacity? Or other potential cars that could slide in under the rule?

I would guess 3500 was the magic number as that is 20B NA, its already a weighted capacity limit (well 3550 is...) and its far enough away from 6L, close enough for 2L to be close AND the fastest u3500 cars will be close to the low budget 6L cars.... At a guess.... Could also be 3500 is the biggest turbo engine, so the NA version is S2?

Phast Phil would know ;)

[Htc Motorsport]

Would it make a difference? Darren's car will still go the same lap times as will any one else using 6 litres. 350 chev x 7 lb/s = roughly 2475 lb/s (is this close to the 1125kg) so that makes the weight break 7 lb/s per cube and we call this Class A. So lets say Toranaracer decides he wants to run in A Class, he can but can he get his car light enough, yes i think if he could, he well might be nearer the front. He would have to weigh roughly, not knowing his engine size lets say 230 cubes x 7lb/s = 1610lb/s i dont think this possible with his car so he has a look at B Class where the weight break is 8lb/s per cube. We could use these numbers for C Class at 9lb/s and D Class at 10lb/s. You can cater for the turbo cars using the 1.7 factor. 4 classes running in the same race. Toranaracer can then settle into a class that suits his engine to weight combo.
Good discussion keep it coming.